tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2257022282747854387.post8832736411611379688..comments2023-11-22T22:04:17.326-08:00Comments on Get Whatcom Planning: Slaughterhouse 8Jean Melioushttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15759730663769578269noreply@blogger.comBlogger51125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2257022282747854387.post-66802984602793518342012-07-08T14:29:38.077-07:002012-07-08T14:29:38.077-07:00I also remember when FWW supported the poultry fac...I also remember when FWW supported the poultry facility in the rural zone. It was a zoning interpretation that resulted in also allowing poultry processing facilities in suburban zones in Lake Whatcom. That case points out the need to be very careful in drafting zoning regulations or you end up with unintended consequences.David Stalheimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10588880557546749656noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2257022282747854387.post-24081650754097133782012-07-07T09:30:05.723-07:002012-07-07T09:30:05.723-07:00Ms. Aurand,
It would be a kindness if you'd su...Ms. Aurand,<br />It would be a kindness if you'd submit your comment to the Planning Commission:<br />Becky Boxx, Coordinator<br />Whatcom County PDS<br />5280 Northwest Drive<br />Bellingham, WA 98226<br />Phone: (360)676-6907<br />Fax: (360)738-2525<br />PDS_Planning_Commission@co.whatcom.wa.us<br /><br />Before you do, It might be useful for you to examine your suggestion that small scale slaughtering facilities be allowed as an accessory use. ("20.40.101 Any use on the farm which is ancillary to the normal operation of the permitted uses.")<br /><br />In that case, a facility could be located only on a parcel with an existing permitted use: "20.40.051: Dairying, raising of livestock, husbandry of small animals, raising of crops, horticulture, apiculture, and temporary portable equipment used for processing of locally harvested crops."<br /><br />Does that requirement makes sense to you? <br />What about allowing such facilities on Rural parcels zoned R-5 and R-10?Dave Onkelsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2257022282747854387.post-28298975439998192212012-07-07T07:00:57.957-07:002012-07-07T07:00:57.957-07:00Thanks! And your cows are the best!Thanks! And your cows are the best!ApexNerdhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00058325929564211196noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2257022282747854387.post-49774347254431740692012-07-06T23:04:26.505-07:002012-07-06T23:04:26.505-07:00yes it was!yes it was!Allison Aurandnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2257022282747854387.post-30541607175635487282012-07-06T22:51:14.102-07:002012-07-06T22:51:14.102-07:00I don't care what the rest of you think. My po...I don't care what the rest of you think. My post was funny.ApexNerdhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00058325929564211196noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2257022282747854387.post-6294077796851935052012-07-06T22:33:14.369-07:002012-07-06T22:33:14.369-07:00Buck up, sir! Where's your mojo? You're ...Buck up, sir! Where's your mojo? You're not "nobody"! You're somebody, and we're glad that you're here.Jean Melioushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15759730663769578269noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2257022282747854387.post-83543363234280233332012-07-06T22:30:22.247-07:002012-07-06T22:30:22.247-07:00Thanks, Allison, for weighing in. I don't dou...Thanks, Allison, for weighing in. I don't doubt that small-scale slaughtering is a need, and it seems like the ag community that wants small-scale slaughtering should weigh in and get a good proposal. If the Planning Commission comes up with a good proposal, of course people interested in ag should support it. If you support this particular proposal, that would certainly influence my opinion. From your post, it's not entirely clear.<br /> <br />As I understand it, the whole thing began with a proposal to allow small-scale slaughterhouses. I didn't follow it then -- it didn't seem like a big deal. A conditional use permit would be required, which would help to make sure that the location made sense. There are lots more things to worry about in this county. <br /><br />But then it grew. It grew into slaughterhouses and processing facilities of unlimited size, with "processing" that could be unrelated to ag, located anywhere in the Ag zone, as a permitted use -no notice, no extra review. <br /><br />I don't know who would disagree that reasonable, ag-related processing, or small-scale slaughtering attuned to local needs, are good things. Do we all automatically agree that covering productive ag land with WalMart-sized warehouses for "processing" businesses, unrelated to our ag economy, is a good thing? Is productive ag land the right place to locate such facilities? If so, it would be helpful to hear more about how and why that helps ag. <br /><br />I read the USDA report on slaughterhouses that Jack Petree referred to. It defines small and large scale slaughterhouses and discusses the economics of slaughterhouses. If you disagree with the report, or have a better source, let me know. <br /><br />It's not scaring people to say that the Planning Commission discussed and rejected buffers. It's a fact. <br /><br />It's not scaring people to say that right now, in Whatcom County, houses adjacent to agricultural land can be built five feet away from the property line. It's not scaring people to say that enough houses can be built in rural areas to accommodate the County's entire population growth between now and 2029. These are just facts. It's too late to hope that rural and ag areas are not going to be full of non-farm related residences. They're already there, applications are there for more, vested lots are there for even more, and zoning is in place for more. So if processing facilities can be built on ag land right next to houses, it's well past the time to pin our hopes on a theory that the houses won't be built. <br /><br />Now, I've been told by Whatcom County planners that "farmers don't care about buffers," so maybe the only issue with the processing plant proposal is that the plants can be built right next to houses. If they're built right smack next to a farmer's property line, the farmer won't mind. So be it. Don't require setbacks from farms, but maybe a setback from houses would make sense.<br /><br />The bottom line is that the Planning Commission has another shot at this. Take a look at the proposal, imagine what the buildout scenario would be under the current proposal, see if it fits your needs, and let the Planning Commission know! <br /><br />Commissioner Onkels and I agree about that.Jean Melioushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15759730663769578269noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2257022282747854387.post-7655447488678076082012-07-06T21:40:26.591-07:002012-07-06T21:40:26.591-07:00I'm late to the party (as usual), but this is ...I'm late to the party (as usual), but this is important to me, so I've got to weigh in.<br /><br />I'm here as a farmer (beef), as someone who believes in planning (which we do very very poorly here), as someone who has represented agriculture professionally (developing policy, advocacy, and so on), as someone who believes in Growth Management. Whatever I say, therefore, take with a grain of salt.<br /><br />First and foremost, we raise beef for direct market. We use Keizer's because it is the only USDA-inspected facility in Whatcom County. We also use Keizer's because it is clean, humane, and just downright well-managed and well-maintained. It is pretty clear to me that the bulk of the commentors here have never been to a slaughter facility, or at least not a modern small-scale facility. <br /><br />However, none of the latter goes to my point. There is local demand for new small-scale processing facilities ("small-scale" is defined by USDA and I'd suggest reading up). We are not going to get animals from Canada - trade restrictions prevent animals from being brought here for processing. I would highly recommend consulting Fred Berman on the subject, as he is local and the WSDA Direct Farm Market guy - he knows his stuff. It's also unlikely we're going to be seeing beef from Oregon making its way here. Because of the dearth of processing facilities, in some cases producers here actually ship to Oregon for processing! Keizer's is at capacity right now - if I want a butcher date in the peak season (fall), I have to book at least a year in advance. The need is there, no question about it. <br /><br />As far as planning goes, I would argue that a processing facility in the ag zone is certainly not an "ag use;" rather, it is an "ag accessory use" and should be managed and regulated as such (secondary business rather than primary and preferred use in the ag zone). However, I'd also say that it's a bit over the top to scare people with the prospect of having a processing facility next to their houses. If we don't want sprawl, I assume we're operating under the long-term planning goal of not having a bunch of houses out there littering up the best farmland (of course, I realize that reality on the ground is different in this county, but still...). <br /><br />My understanding of the position of most of the people commenting here is also - correct me if I'm wrong - that we want local ag, to reduce our carbon footprint, and to support the success of small business and local farming. If that is indeed true, both ag and the secondary businesses that serve it have to be supported. A few years ago, Futurewise Whatcom supported a poultry facility in the rural zone that was in the permitting stage and under attack; the reason FWW supported the poultry facility was that ag/forestry uses are preferred uses in the rural zone, and that there is no question that poultry is an ag use - and if we "plan" and respect our planning commitment, we can't pick and choose based on which uses we "like." This is, essentially, the same situation, only more clear-cut because this time the zone we're talking about is agricultural - there is certainly no question a local slaughter facility will benefit ag. <br /><br />If we truly believe in what we say, then we have to walk the talk and support ag. That same rule also applies the folks that have gutted our capacity for long-term ag viability through landscape fragmentation, extremely bad planning, and greed, all the while claiming they are the supporters of ag and the ag community. <br /><br />The "walk the talk" concept, of course, goes for both the left and right (such as they are), and I have to say, that from my perspective, both sides are undermining ag, each in its own very special way. It's disappointing to me as a producer, but also as someone whose family has been in this county nearly 100 years and watched it grow and change - in recent years, not for the better.Allison Aurandnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2257022282747854387.post-9426393408226073702012-07-06T19:09:51.094-07:002012-07-06T19:09:51.094-07:00No need to plead anything to a statement of fact. ...No need to plead anything to a statement of fact. Now everybody, go outside and play!Jean Melioushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15759730663769578269noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2257022282747854387.post-33240272282116592502012-07-06T17:45:49.112-07:002012-07-06T17:45:49.112-07:00"However, you are well aware that if 3 other ..."However, you are well aware that if 3 other Commissioners decided to chime in on this online discussion, it would constitute a meeting and we would run afoul of Appearance of Fairness rules; another complication we don't need at this point."<br /><br />That's not going to happen, because, as you well know, nobody comes here.Dave Onkelsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2257022282747854387.post-60825657391284431482012-07-06T17:41:19.029-07:002012-07-06T17:41:19.029-07:00Ms. Melious: "Commissioner Onkels, you're...Ms. Melious: "Commissioner Onkels, you're referring to my post, not to any text from Commissioner Fleischmann."<br /><br />I plead guilty.David Onkelsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2257022282747854387.post-3001330908736875542012-07-05T21:11:20.061-07:002012-07-05T21:11:20.061-07:00You're wrong, but let's move on. Tired of...You're wrong, but let's move on. Tired of this.Jean Melioushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15759730663769578269noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2257022282747854387.post-6642802648507404602012-07-05T20:39:20.165-07:002012-07-05T20:39:20.165-07:00Jean,
You wrote, " We were not offered an opp...Jean,<br />You wrote, " We were not offered an opportunity to respond."<br /><br />My goodness!<br />I recall listening to Mr. Stalheim hold forth at length in response to a "clarifying question" from Commissioner Belisle, and I clearly remember Chairman Luke's offer to you to testify about rural element issues.<br /><br />It is my recollection that you refused, and that you did not attend the next meeting. Am I wrong?Dave Onkelsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2257022282747854387.post-38564975935701946972012-07-05T08:40:04.190-07:002012-07-05T08:40:04.190-07:00Jack Petree's... puns... horrible.... losing c...Jack Petree's... puns... horrible.... losing consciousness... must... find... antidote... LOLcatz pics... only hope... must... click... mouse... ...ApexNerdhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00058325929564211196noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2257022282747854387.post-26651438265749616022012-07-04T14:53:58.217-07:002012-07-04T14:53:58.217-07:00Has Jack grown horns? I guess I haven't seen ...Has Jack grown horns? I guess I haven't seen him in a while.Jean Melioushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15759730663769578269noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2257022282747854387.post-35350577463511325672012-07-04T14:13:46.745-07:002012-07-04T14:13:46.745-07:00Horns?
I'd be flattered.Horns?<br />I'd be flattered.Dave Onkelsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2257022282747854387.post-13651900835233589432012-07-04T14:06:44.219-07:002012-07-04T14:06:44.219-07:00Boys, boys, boys! Go shoot off some fireworks out...Boys, boys, boys! Go shoot off some fireworks outside!<br /><br />Mr. Onkels, it's nice of you to defend Mr. Petree against your fellow Commissioner. Perhaps the two of you (you and Jack, that is) have officially melded into one. I hear that Photoshop can do that with Facebook pictures -- but don't worry, I won't steal your image to try. As tempting as it may be.Jean Melioushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15759730663769578269noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2257022282747854387.post-34740412323254128832012-07-04T13:52:31.385-07:002012-07-04T13:52:31.385-07:00John,
I think you're engaging in revisionist h...John,<br />I think you're engaging in revisionist history.<br />"You can't seem to address a tough issue head-on."<br />The motions you don't like were mine.<br />"As far as my "rants" are concerned, examples please. Don't be a Cheap Shotster."<br />I was present for more than one, John.Dave Onkelsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2257022282747854387.post-34387909566238368192012-07-04T13:12:40.796-07:002012-07-04T13:12:40.796-07:00John,
I think I was pretty clear... I'm not ...John, <br /><br />I think I was pretty clear... I'm not much worried about the factory farming that makes up most of our ag industry in Whatcom County... I am concerned that we do need to have some sort of reasonably scaled facilities... I want my half a beef and half a pig this year... and I want small farms to have a chance to survive despite the opposition to them by the city folk. Nevertheless, the USDA is concerned, rightly, about the availability of slaughterhouses... they are necessary to the dairy industry as well as to other industies. I would not see a huge facility located in Whatcom County. A more reasonable area would be northern Snohomish County or Skagit County so the facility could serve the needs of three or four counties...<br /><br />This is my last post on this issue. You've finally cowed me. It's a meaty subject but we've pared that meat down to the bone. Nothing left to even stew; about.Jack Petreehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06275936244782707075noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2257022282747854387.post-84715255150568145752012-07-04T12:28:05.135-07:002012-07-04T12:28:05.135-07:00Jack, Jack, Jack.....
Bromide Bon Motster extraor...Jack, Jack, Jack.....<br /><br />Bromide Bon Motster extraordinaire....<br /><br />I repeat--you should move to LA and write for Leno. In the meantime, don't give up your day job. <br /><br />As far as my "rants" are concerned, examples please. Don't be a Cheap Shotster.<br /><br />The frustrating thing about you--and Commissioner Onkels--is that you can be scattered on tough issues. You can't seem to address a tough issue head-on.<br /><br />I asked you previously where you stood on the slaughterhouse proposal. And all I get is some reference to a USDA report. Anyone with a search engine and too much spare time can do that.<br /> <br />Dave, I prefer to hear Councilmember Brenner's comments in a public forum. She has had some time to mull over this issue and I am sure she will be making some kind of statement in due course. After all, it is her Comp Plan amendment and her Council that will ultimately decide this issue. <br /><br />However, I would like to hear from a broader section of the public before our advisory vote on this matter. I think the original proposal was more responsible than the current one. <br /><br /><br />Have a Happy Fourth of July ! <br /><br />I wish I could close with one of Jack's clever turns of phrase, but I'm not that clever......john lesownoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2257022282747854387.post-34710437393876259082012-07-04T12:08:18.928-07:002012-07-04T12:08:18.928-07:00Am I the only person who leaves a trail of bread c...Am I the only person who leaves a trail of bread crumbs behind me when I delve into Jack Petree's posts? I suppose it is time to invest in a GPS device...ApexNerdhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00058325929564211196noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2257022282747854387.post-71796641144184341322012-07-04T11:08:45.371-07:002012-07-04T11:08:45.371-07:00"I would be interested in Councilmember Brenn..."I would be interested in Councilmember Brenner's take on the current PC proposal and will ask for it. Has her initial support for "small scale" changed in lieu of the present proposal ?"<br /><br />Why don't you give her a call? she and I have already had a pretty lengthy conversation about the issue.Dave Onkelsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2257022282747854387.post-74216638320392579042012-07-04T10:25:10.019-07:002012-07-04T10:25:10.019-07:00Jack, more revisionist history. As for current ev...Jack, more revisionist history. As for current events, my most recent experience with the Planning Commission was listening to the audio in which Mr. Onkels ask you questions that allowed you to "rant" (to use your own word) for half an hour about evidence that my clients and I submitted into the record. We were not offered an opportunity to respond. So of course you view the Planning Commission as fair, since your perspective is eagerly sought and listened to exclusively.<br /><br />I think that the Rural Element is important. I think that a proposal to allow processing and slaughtering plants of unlimited size, on productive agricultural land, as a permitted use, is important. I'm surprised that you would speak for Mr. Lesow on his view of these issues, although not surprised that you would speak for Mr. Onkels.Jean Melioushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15759730663769578269noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2257022282747854387.post-12507634422001664392012-07-04T08:34:29.311-07:002012-07-04T08:34:29.311-07:00Jean,
Simply read Mr. Lesow's comment in the...Jean, <br /><br />Simply read Mr. Lesow's comment in the context of your concern about one sided conversations then look back to the various conversations while you were on the commission with a view to remembering Mr. Lesow's stern lectures and occasional outright rants directed at me during that time. <br /><br />I think both Mr. O and Mr. L are frustrated by a Planning Department mostly forwarding make-work rather than anthing substantial to the Commission; "Here's your color crayons boys and girls, you play with these while mommy does her important work." <br /><br />As to Mr. Lesow's comments, apparently providing unedited material from the Department of Agriculture is an on-line bromide. Must not have been a brand name, it doesn't seem to have done much to settle Mr. Lesow's stomach.Jack Petreehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06275936244782707075noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2257022282747854387.post-69176475828579071452012-07-04T07:49:13.193-07:002012-07-04T07:49:13.193-07:00Part of the point of this blog is to bring issues ...Part of the point of this blog is to bring issues out into the public, beyond the Planning Commission. You've done us a great service by bringing a bit of the Planning Commission to us. Now our readers can see its partisanship and predetermintion of issues.<br /><br />When you've already determined that the issues that we've raised are mere "hyperventilation," the point of commenting to the Planning Commission would be -- to be laughed at? The Planning Commission is a very hostile place for anyone whose views diverge from those of the Slaughterhouse 8.Jean Melioushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15759730663769578269noreply@blogger.com